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Mpox Discussion Forum: Latest News & Information Regarding the Clade 1b Mpox Virus

A new pandemic

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Dutch Josh 2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2025 at 11:56pm
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/local-regional-communities-and-organizations/cidrap/1004918-cidrap-in-light-of-avian-flu-seasonal-flu-cdc-urges-clinicians-to-speed-influenza-a-subtyping or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/local-regional-communities-and-organizations/cidrap/1004918-cidrap-in-light-of-avian-flu-seasonal-flu-cdc-urges-clinicians-to-speed-influenza-a-subtyping 

DJ...the big question is how H5N1 very widespread in the US, but H5N1 is a global problem, is already "mixed" with other types of flu...

Some "optimists" claim "we can end pandemics if we all use masks/eyeprotection, ventilation...DJ-It would slow down the process...like vaccines-limit disease (lower viral load). 

The BIG problem however;
Lots of diseases are also spreading in lots of other species...so the diseases have tens of billions of (potential) hosts-with all kinds of mutations/recombinations happening...

One may claim the Spanish H1N1-flu (1917-1923) mainly was a human problem. Selflimiting because after infection people did get immunity against the H1N1 virus...With also a side note that bacterial co-infections and immune-overreaction did kill a lot of the 20-100 million people in those days...

Since 2019 CoViD-19/SARS-2 may have done THREE things;
-Acute disease, may have killed 32-40 million (official statistic at 7 million...but that ignores untested CoViD deaths...)
-Long CoViD, damage to organs by the virus/bloodcloths etc.
-Immunity damage in BILLIONS !!! of humans !

An estimate that I take serious is over half of the global population may have had CoViD at least once...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2025 at 12:01am
DJ-CoViD is NOT a type of flu...it is a COrona-VIrus-Disease (CoViD) with the corona virus able to stay behind, hide in organs...NOT creating the "group/herd" immunity some "experts" hoped for...

Even worse...even "cold" corona-virusses may have been underestimated. Not only bringing "a cold" but maybe linked to ME-CFS...

Saving the economy meant ignoring public health...marginalizing Long CoViD, ME-CFS patients...simply denying the problem...

Immunity gets exhausted because of re-infections AND CoViD staying in the host...

DJ-I am NOT any kind of expert...a risk in "experts" can be a (certain) tunnelvision. So Mpox, H5N1, HMPV etc. "going for new horizons" is NOT linked-by some experts-as CoViD-damage related...Just like high(er) excess deaths due to hearth, ung, brain issues are NOT linked to CoViD-damage...

DJ-It makes me wonder how "science" works...The WHO -for years-denying aerosol CoViD spread.. 

So what will be next ? A global wave of Ebola, Marburg-virus ? Measles able to evade immunity ? Or an animal disease-very limited so far-able to go into many species ? 

"Political blame games" make matters only worse...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:07am
DJ, "limited new news"...the US H5N1-story is partly "political" ? 
CALIFORNIA WILDFIRES
Norovirus outbreak reported at Pasadena evacuation shelter

Posted: Jan 17, 2025 / 01:07 PM PST
Updated: Jan 17, 2025 / 01:07 PM PST
by: Austin Turner

An outbreak of the norovirus has been reported at the Pasadena Evacuation Center, officials confirmed.

The Pasadena Public Health Department said that three cases of the norovirus were confirmed at the Pasadena Convention Center shelter on Friday morning. Those three diagnoses come as a cluster of 28 people battle acute gastrointestinal illness.

Since Jan. 10, the American Red Cross has been operating the shelter, which is designed to house Eaton Fire victims who lost their homes or were forced to evacuate. ...

The PPHD said crews at the evacuation shelter are making sure to isolate the individuals who became sick and are working with onsite medical teams from Kaiser Permanente and AltaMed to provide the necessary medical aid.
DJ, trump denied both climate and pandemic disasters...
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https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/singapore-scientists-offer-groundbreaking-insights-into-how-respiratory-microbiomes-shift-during-influenza-and-covid-19 or https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/singapore-scientists-offer-groundbreaking-insights-into-how-respiratory-microbiomes-shift-during-influenza-and-covid-19 

and https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-who-accused-of-fabricating-marburg-virus-outbreak-in-tanzania-to-distract-attention-from-the-global-hmpv-crisis or https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-who-accused-of-fabricating-marburg-virus-outbreak-in-tanzania-to-distract-attention-from-the-global-hmpv-crisis 

DJ-Big picture; CoViD and flu co-spreading in many places...H5N1 may be mixed in with flu-types spreading in humans...HMPV a growing crisis ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 56 minutes ago at 10:45pm
https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2025/01/articles/animals/dogs/influenza-vaccination-in-dogs-cross-protection-against-h5n1/ or https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2025/01/articles/animals/dogs/influenza-vaccination-in-dogs-cross-protection-against-h5n1/ 

DJ, Both CoViD and H5N1 are widespread around the globe in many species and co-spreading. 

The idea of "group immunity after infection" for CoViD is anti-science...eventough some still promote that insanity...Flu may be self-limiting-infection creating immunity against the same flu-variant...and it may offer some protection against "similar" types of flu ? 

H5N1 is -very likely-already mixed in with H1N1/H3N2-flu now spreading in many countries...co-infection with CoViD (some variants may "mix" better ?) "flu-rona" may result in more severe disease...

HMPV seems to be a growing other global risk (with RS-virus, measles, Mpox etc also a widespread problem). 
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Non Pharma Intervention is something YOU control !
-Information the major tool !
-Ventilation is lowering viral load (for flu, CoViD etc !)
-Masks/eye-protection means the virus will have less chance of getting into you !
-Vaccines lower risks after infection - in general
-Limit travel-do not spread the viruses...Very likely MOST of the spread may be a/pre-symptomatic !
-Avoid-if possible-crowds...

DJ-A "bigger picture" is disease will become such a big problem even trump&co may have to admit some steps are needed...Pumping in more tax money into BiG Pharma share holders is "a common neo-liberal" reflex...Most non-western countries see Big Pharma as strategic; if not state owned at least state controlled; You do NOT make profits out of crises...exploiting crises for profits is in the way of solving those crises...

It may be too late for the climate crises...but we should be able to limit pandemics if we want to...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 3 minutes ago at 11:38pm
https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/norovirus-can-also-spread-via-aerosol-transmission or https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/norovirus-can-also-spread-via-aerosol-transmission 

link to https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/16/1/151  or https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/16/1/151

DJ, Aerosol-spread may also be a factor in clade lb-Mpox spread (?)...

Only further increasing the need for better surveilance and testing !
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This one will still be intentionally 'missed' by many because the original study shows scientific evidence that #LongCovid impacts more people in their prime years. It is too much of an uncomfortable truth for many to handle. #NeuroCovid https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.27128
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Brain Inflammation Collaborative
@BrainInflCollab
·
45% of those with Long COVID suffer from a sleep disorder (1). It's so prevalent it's dubbed 'coronasomnia'. Here is the science...🧵

DJ, problem is NOT lack of science...but we ignore science...A "pandemic of stupidity"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 10 minutes ago at 12:31am
https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2025/01/articles/animals/dogs/influenza-vaccination-in-dogs-cross-protection-against-h5n1/ or https://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2025/01/articles/animals/dogs/influenza-vaccination-in-dogs-cross-protection-against-h5n1/ ;

These days I commonly get the question ”Does vaccination of dogs with available canine influenza vaccines protect them from H5N1 avian flu?” While we don’t have any hard data on this, we still have a pretty good idea of the answer.

One of the challenges with flu vaccination (in any species, including humans) is the lack of good cross protection between strains (e.g. H3N2 vs H1N1 vs H5N1). In general, we assume there’s little to no cross-protection, and organizations such as CDCPublic Health Agency of Canada and WHO have stated that seasonal flu vaccines don’t offer any protection to people against H5N1 flu. 

That said, theoretically there there may be a bit of protection, though it’s hard to have confidence in that based on data from older lab animal studies. One study (Rockman et al. J Virol 2013) showed that ferrets vaccinated with human seasonal flu vaccine had partial protection against challenge with H5N1 flu


They determined that this was from the H1N1 component of the vaccine, and was predominantly from the neuraminidase (N) part (H5N1 and H1N1 have the same N1). 


While we typically pay more attention to the H component for vaccination, the similarity in N may be useful. That means there may be some protection of people from H5N1 flu if they’re vaccinated for seasonal flu, but not a lot, and we have to be careful extrapolating too much from older studies using different types of H5N1 in lab animal models. 

DJ, There are indications age may be a factor in H5N1 human cases. Older people may have had "flu" more often-could have better protection against the "N1" part of H5N1...

For that matter statistics may offer some perspective...

Canine flu vaccines target H3N2 canine flu, plus or minus H3N8 canine flu strain. (Realistically we only care about H3N2 now, since H3N8 appears to have disappeared as of a few years ago.) Those are quite different from H5N1 avian flu in flu terms.  Since there’s no overlap in the Hs or Ns, we wouldn’t expect to even have that small theoretical cross-protection benefit. If we had an H1N1 canine flu strain, maybe there’d be some protection, but (thankfully!) we don’t.

Does canine flu vaccination help protect against flu recombination? 

Recombination (mixing) of different flu strains in the same host (human or animal) to create a new, more problematic strain is certainly a concern. We don’t want someone to be infected with seasonal flu and H5N1 flu at the same time, as that creates the potential for a new flu strain to emerge that has the hallmarks of a human flu (readily infected people, effective human-to-human transmission) but has picked up enough H5N1 bits that we don’t have protection from previous exposure or vaccination and may can cause more severe disease. So even though seasonal flu vaccines in people don’t protect against H5N1 flu, there is still benefit from reducing the human seasonal flu burden, as it in turn reduces the risk that a person will be infected with multiple flu strains at the same time, which reduces the chances of recombination.

Does the same principle apply to vaccination of dogs against canine flu? It’s a stretch. There could be some potential benefits for canine health, but probably not much benefit for public health. Canine flu is much rarer than seasonal flu is in people, so there’s less potential benefit simply because there’s less disease to prevent. There’s also less baseline protection against canine flu in dogs because it’s rare and therefore vaccination is uncommon. So from a disease transmission standpoint for dogs, a new flu strain against which they don’t have immunity isn’t that different from the current H3N2 canine flu strain, since most dogs don’t have immunity to that either.


DJ, limiting flu spread in mammals = limiting risks of a flu pandemic !

Public health benefits would be less of a reason to promote vaccination of dogs against canine flu stains. Canine H3N2 flu poses little risk of infection of people, so a hybrid of canine H3N2 and H5N1 wouldn’t be expected to be more transmissible to people (even though it would potentially add some mammalian adaptations to an H5N1-related virus, which is definitely not the direction we want the virus to go). For dogs to be a flu “mixing vessel” of public health concern, a human flu strain would need to be involved. While dogs can occasionally be infected with human flu strains, the odds of a dog having H3N2, human seasonal flu and H5N1 at the same time are pretty low. Even then, whether or not the dog was vaccinated against H3N2 wouldn’t really affect the risk, since we’d be primarily concerned about the human flu and the H5N1 flu mixing in the dog, not whether or not H3N2 joins the party.

DJ, Cats, pigs are a different story-both better able to catch/mix human flu types with H5N1...but the major "mixing vessel" are humans themselves !

And again-CoViD did do a lot of immunity damage...so it may open doors to types of flu we would NOT expect to see in humans !

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Rhode Island reports first measles case since 2013

DJ, there is some "wishfull thinking" immunity against flu may mean better immunity against a lot of diseases...For now there are NO real indications for that...An over-active immune response may bring harm-severe disease/death or auto-immune diseases...

So avoiding infection is the better alternative ! FFP-2/(K)N-95 masks  stops most viruses...
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