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Mpox Discussion Forum: Latest News & Information Regarding the Clade 1b Mpox Virus

A new pandemic

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Dutch Josh 2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Dec 2024 at 11:56am
UK;
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23 hr wait in Yeovil A&E...at York Hospitals patients already seen and needing a bed are waiting over 48hrs to get on the ward.
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NORWAY - H5N5 BIRD FLU 1st time that bird flu of the subtype H5N5 has been detected in lynx. The autopsy showed that the lynx was in good condition and had had an acute course of the disease. Further examinations showed that the virus was only present in the brain.
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https://independentsage.substack.com/p/just-the-flu-hampers-our-response or https://independentsage.substack.com/p/just-the-flu-hampers-our-response ;

Prof Steve Griffin on why "just a flu" is such a dangerous phrase


The phrase “just the flu” has enraged me since COVID began as it pays neither SARS-CoV2, nor influenza virus, the respect they deserve.

This phrase, clearly aimed at normalising pandemic harms, effectively benchmarks flu, which causes 1000s of UK deaths annually, as “normal”. This is despite available vaccines, drugs, and hard-earned population immunity against the flu virus. Sadly, familiarity breeds contempt, or in this case, complacency.


The UK “living with” COVID response relies entirely on this premise of flu as a “normal” illness, crowbarring a COVID peg into an influenza-shaped hole. The result: an overstretched NHS enduring additional health burden with little extra resource.

SARS-CoV2 has made “winter pressures” perennial (Figure 1). As a result, more people are dying, hundreds of thousands more people are unable to work, and support for Long Covid patients is dwindling. This “new normal” is NOT befitting of a country with (historically) advanced health and social care.


DJ, indie_SAGE did do a good job in informing people. We may welcome them back...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2024 at 3:15am
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PMC COVID-19 Dashboard, Dec 30, 2024 (U.S.) 🔥1 in 50 people actively infectious 🔥1 in 3 chance of an exposure in a gathering of 20 on NYE 🔥6.7 million new infections per week 🔥>300,000 resulting #LongCOVID conditions/week Info for new readers: For those unfamiliar with the PMC model, find full weekly reports for the past 1.5 years at http://pmc19.com/data The models combine data from IHME, Biobot, and CDC to use wastewater to estimate case levels (r = .93 to .96) and forecast levels the next month based on typical levels for that date and recent patterns of changes in transmission the past 4 weeks. Our work has been cited in top scientific journals and media outlets, which are fully sourced in a detailed technical appendix at https://pmc19.com/data/PMC_COVID_Forecast_Nov25_2024_technical_appendix.pdf Examples include JAMA Onc, JAMA-NO, BMC Public Health, Time, People, TODAY, the Washington Post, the Institute for New Economic Thinking, Salon, Forbes, the New Republic, Fox, CBS, and NBC. See pgs 11-13 at the above link. We will have a pre-print out in the next month documenting very compelling evidence for the validity of using wastewater to estimate case rates. Forecasting is challenging in the context of the current viral evolution, but the real-time estimates of cases are impressively accurate to the best we can evaluate it.

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New from ⁦⁩ GBD 2021. Covid mortality rates. No surprises: Well-vaccinated Northern European nations, Canada, Northern U.S. had lowest mortality; less vaccinated Southern U.S. fared worse; poorly vaccinated regions Africa, Russia the worst https://healthdata.org/research-analysis/diseases-injuries-risks/factsheets/2021-covid-19-level-3-disease

DJ, Some western-most US-"experts" claim China is lying on its statistics. However China/Asia has a tradition of masking...decent sick-pay often, the idea you are part of society...above "freedom" to not give a damn...

So yes lots of countries will do better then "neo-liberal freedom" countries destroying climate, health...Outlook for 2025 is bad. Learning the hard way...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2024 at 9:24am
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/the-pandemic-discussion-forum/824572-discussion-chinese-academy-of-sciences-cas-in-wuhan-has-been-working-with-bats-and-coronavirus-for-many-years-dna-manipulations-cloning?view=stream or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/the-pandemic-discussion-forum/824572-discussion-chinese-academy-of-sciences-cas-in-wuhan-has-been-working-with-bats-and-coronavirus-for-many-years-dna-manipulations-cloning?view=stream (latest);

Chinese view; AFP: Yesterday, the World Health Organization (WHO) called on China to share COVID-19 data and provide access to help understand the origins of the virus. They called it a moral and scientific imperative. Does the Foreign Ministry have any response to this call from WHO? 

Mao Ning: Since the outbreak of COVID-19 five years ago, China has shared information on the outbreak and genome sequence of the virus with WHO and the international community at the earliest time possible, and has shared with others our control and clinical experience without reservation, making great contribution to the global effort of fighting against COVID-19.

On the origins-tracing of COVID-19, China follows the spirit of science, openness, and transparency, actively supports and participates in global science-based origins-tracing, and firmly opposes any form of political manipulation. China is the only country that has invited more than once WHO expert groups to come into the country to conduct joint origins study. China is also the only country that has organized multiple events for its experts to share progress on origins-tracing with WHO. On the  origins-tracing of COVID-19, China has shared more data and research findings and contributed more to worldwide COVID-19 origins study than any other country. WHO experts said on multiple occasions that the Chinese side granted full access to all sites, personnel and material they requested when conducting study in China, and that the level of openness and transparency in China is what they hadn’t expected. 

The international science community is now providing increasing clues that point possible COVID origins to various parts of the world, and a global perspective is needed to carry out origins-tracing work in multiple countries and regions. 

China stands ready to work with all parties to continue advancing global science-based origins-tracing study and make active contribution to better guard against infectious diseases in the future.

DJ, Lots of global findings point to early CoViD cases https://www.coronaheadsup.com/science/origins/sars-cov-2-in-angola-from-23rd-september-2019/ or https://www.coronaheadsup.com/science/origins/sars-cov-2-in-angola-from-23rd-september-2019/ So was Wuhan military games-october 2019 a spread event ? 

US/west confrontationism; 
sharon sanders
No. Actually the spokesperson is lying. The Wuhan market was cleaned up immediately with no outside observers. Only YEARS later did the China government disclose some information about the outbreak circumstances.

They are trying to re-write history. Probability and statistics do not support their allegations that SARS-Cov-2 developed and broke out in "various parts of the world".

Ridiculous. This is what you get with a dictatorship operating with a closed press.


DJ...It did take decades to get a basic view on the Spanish Flu. The US is seeking conflicts all over the world by all means. 

YES-A lot of pandemics did start -at least in part-in China. (China-Laos rain forest part of the risk). Global border controls failed to contain SARS-2. 

The US regime is a global problem. The way the US is twisting stories to fit their own agenda an insult to science and humanity...

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🇺🇸🇨🇳 NYT Claims China Hacked US Treasury ▪️It is difficult, sometimes impossible to attribute cyber attacks because professional hackers misdirect attribution as a matter of procedure; ▪️The US has already been exposed as having left behind digital fingerprints to misdirect attribution toward adversaries like Russia and China - false flag cyberattacks; ▪️Who benefits from this? China by painting a target on itself or the US desperate to justify its escalation vs. China? My 2018 article on the topic including links to Western sources admitting this: https://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2018/02/us-uk-accuse-russia-of-notpetya.html?m=1
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🇺🇸While the US lectures the rest of the world about fabricated human rights violations, its own system regularly tortures and murders citizens and prisoners, often on camera. The US has the largest prison population on Earth. It has more prisoners than China despite China having a 4-5x larger population. Despite obviously being a systemic problem, only those blatantly caught are "fired" or tried/jailed, while those in local and national government who created this system continue expanding it both at home and abroad... And while the Western media (like this BBC article) reports on this abuse, it portrays it as isolated from the collective West's leadership rather than a symptom of it. https://bbc.com/news/articles/c2ldwe1ypywo.amp

DJ, healthcare in most developed countries is public and not for profits...western neo-liberalism is that rotten and corrupt it will sell anything...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 2:45am
https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2024/12/nejm-critical-illness-in-adolescent.html or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2024/12/nejm-critical-illness-in-adolescent.html ;

Today, the NEJM has published a correspondence from the team of doctors and public health investigators into this case which provides far more detail than we've seen previously. 

We learn that the patient was a 13 year-old girl, and that after several weeks of intensive care she was able to come off ECMO on November 22nd, was extubated on November 28th. Details on her current condition, and/or any sequelae are not provided. 

Of considerable interest, todays report discusses the detection of several significant amino acid substitutions, which are believed to increase mammalian adaptations.   

Just over a month ago, in Referral: MedCram On Avian Flu Mutations That Favor Human Transmission, we looked at early reports of ambiguous mutations at several key sites (Q226 and E190 (H3 numbering)) in the HA gene.

These mutations have previously been linked to increased binding to `mammalian'  α2-6–linked sialic acid receptor cells, which are commonly found in the human upper airway. 

Today's report adds that the PB2-E627K mutation was also detected (52% allele frequency). This mutation is known to increase IAV replication in mammalian cells, and is considered a particularly important finding. 

While we've only seen a small number ( 20) of human infections with this D1.1 genotype, at least two have proved serious enough to require hospitalization. Both shared at least one HA mutation; E186E/D (aka E190E/D H3 numbering).

Curiously, we've seen more than twice as many human infections with the bovine B3.13 genotype, and so far, none have been severe.  Both genotypes continue to evolve and adapt, however.

DJ, Again;

-H5N1 is a GLOBAL problem in mammals -more or less- in all continents (Australia still no H5N1 cases in birds ??? One imported human case from India)

-CoViD is again going for another wave-slowly decreasing human group protection against lots of other diseases...and CoViD itself may become worse even more...

-A new sort of disease-for humans-may find ways to become very widespread and very fast

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As a new year brings new public health leadership, it’s worth rereading this piece, which warns that bird flu risk to the general public, while unpredictable, can transition from low to high in “dizzyingly brief” time. https://statnews.com/2024/10/16/bird-flu-pandemic-overall-risk-low-continued-h5n1-outbreak-dairy-cattle-worrisome/ via

DJ, So ALSO CoViD and H5N1 are high risk...

We are NOT doing enough to contain spread. The main steps however can be made by YOU !!! If ill-try to limit spread...masks work (nothing is 100% perfect-but it is the combination of steps that matter !)

Vaccines limit disease...may give complications in very limited numbers...however may also limit chronic healthissues. 
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DJ, In my first 2025 item I try to gather info on what may be happening in China...multi disease crisis ? 

On the Canada 13 y/o H5N1 very serious case;

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This 13-year-old received 3 antivirals (oseltamavir, amantadine, and baloxavir) PLUS plasma exchange for #H5N1. In over a decade as an ID doctor, I've never used such measures for #Influenza — not even during H1N1. #H5N1 and its viral evolution is alarming; we must boost surveillance, testing, prevention, and education to control it. https://nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2415890
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https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/01/nature-comms-zoonotic-transmission-of.html  or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/01/nature-comms-zoonotic-transmission-of.html ;
While avian influenza currently has most of our attention, over the past 15 years we've seen more than 500 novel swine flu infections reported in the United States, and scores of others around the globe. 

We know the 2009 H1N1 pandemic virus emerged from swine in Mexico following a quadruple reassortment of genes from human, avian, and swine influenza viruses.
Of the CDC's IRAT (Influenza Risk Assessment Tool) list of 25 zoonotic influenza A viruses with pandemic potential, 4 are swine variant viruses and the virus with the highest emergence & impact score is a Swine Variant H1N1 from China.
But the reality is, surveillance of swine variant viruses is less than ideal around the globe, and most spillovers into humans are never reported.
One of the hotspots for swine variant influenza has been Brazil, which is the 4th largest producer of pork in the world.
All of which brings us to a new article which looks at the diverse array of swine variant viruses reported from Paraná, Brazil between 2020 and 2023.  

One of the reasons why we don't concentrate solely on avian H5 influenza is that there are too many other ways the next pandemic could emerge.  
Nature's lab is truly open 24/7, and is perfectly capable of delivering a nasty surprise out of left field. 

DJ, Again the mix of diseases can result in unexpected outcomes/mix of diseases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 58 minutes ago at 1:11am
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Media: Teen with #H5N1 off oxygen, no longer infectious. Treatment included temporary tracheal intubation. Reality: Intubated for 3 weeks, ECMO for 2 weeks, hemodialysis plasma exchange 3 times. How many people will be able to afford this treatment in the U.S healthcare system?

DJ, The 19th century idea of "public health" was to "keep workers alive"...The industrial revolution had resulted in fast growing cities with a lot of poor workers-sometimes dying before getting 25...

So rules were made on housing, healthcare, education...Better educated workers produced more...could buy more...

Somehow that part of history is forgotten ? 

-You do not want ill workers infecting others on the workplace...So you provide good sick leave...In lots of countries people get 70% to 100% of their "normal income". 

In the UK it is/was just 30%...so getting ill is loss of income...

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India: 13 new quarantine centres to be built at international airports "The centres will be used for isolating people .. who have symptoms of a disease with the potential to cause an outbreak." H/t Times of India

DJ, Lots of countries preparing for possible major health events...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 48 minutes ago at 4:21am
https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/01/when-seasonal-influenza-goes-rogue.html  or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/01/when-seasonal-influenza-goes-rogue.html;

While we wait to see if some series of untoward mutations or reassortments affords HPAI H5 the ability to transmit efficiently between humans, we already have an array of highly unpredictable flu viruses that are quite capable of causing severe disease and disruptions. 

Even during an `average' year, the WHO estimates:

Key facts
  • There are around a billion cases of seasonal influenza annually, including 3–5 million cases of severe illness.
  • It causes 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths annually.
  • Ninety-nine percent of deaths in children under 5 years of age with influenza-related lower respiratory tract infections are in developing countries.
The notion that it's `only seasonal flu' ignores these facts and flu's long history of occasionally going rogue. Sometimes that involves increased virulence, other times significant drops in vaccine effectiveness (VE), and occasionally even antiviral resistance. 

And there's little to prevent seasonal flu from pulling a hat trick (all three). A little `flu history' illustrates some of the abilities of seasonal flu:

Nearly a decade after the official end of the 1918 pandemic, the United States saw a particularly severe 1928 flu season, which claimed (approx.) 50,000 lives. 

Adjusted for population, it would equal 150K lives lost today; more than lost during the 1957 H2N2 pandemic.

Admittedly, bacterial pneumonia likely contributed to these numbers, but it shows the extreme impact a non-pandemic flu season can have.  

In the opening years of WWII, the US military – fearing that crowded ships and barracks could spark a reprise of the 1918 pandemic – commissioned Dr. Thomas Francis of the University of Michigan and his protégé Jonas Salk to come up with a viable influenza vaccine.   

Within a year a vaccine based on the 1934 and 1943 flu strains was in wide use in the military, and for several years the Francis/Salk vaccine worked well. 

But in 1947, a new variant of the H1N1 virus appeared on military bases – first reported in Japan – and quickly spread from there infecting hundreds of millions around the globe (see 2002 PNAS article). 

While it produced a generally mild illness, and few excess deaths, this new strain had drifted enough antigenically to evade both the vaccine and community immunity acquired from earlier strains. 

1947 is little remembered today, except for the lesson it taught us; that vaccines must be updated nearly each year to take into account antigenic drift (or newly emerging flu strains).

Four years later, a far more ominous viral strain made a brief appearance on the global stage, during what was an otherwise mild and unremarkable 1950-51 flu season.  

This outbreak is often called the Liverpool Fluand for about six weeks, it caused a virulent flu virus to spread across the UK and into Canada – that for a time - was as deadly as the 1918 pandemic.

In 2006 the CDC's EID Journal published a stellar account of this event, and it is very much worth reading. 

Viboud C, Tam T, Fleming D, Miller MA, Simonsen L. 1951 influenza epidemic, England and Wales, Canada, and the United States. Emerg Infect Dis [serial on the Internet]. 2006 Apr [date cited].

While presumably a variant of the seasonal A/H1N1 strain, we still don't know what made that virus so deadly, or why it failed to return the following year. 

A pandemic strain (H2N2did emerge in 1957 - following an avian/seasonal flu reassortment event - that produced several delayed waves in 1960 and 1963 in the United States and a sharp resurgence in the UK in 1967.

Eleven years later (1968), an avian H3 virus reassorted with H2N2 in Asia, and generated a pandemic H3N2 virus which would dominate until 1977.  

In February of 1976, however, a young recruit at Ft. Dix, New Jersey fell ill and died within 24 hours. The virus went on to infect more than 200 soldiers and caused severe respiratory disease in 13 of them. It circulated on the base for nearly a month.

 The virus was isolated and dubbed A/New Jersey/76 (Hsw1N1). How it arrived on the base was unknown. While the death rate was very low, this virus appeared to easily transmissible among humans. 

And the fear was, it might develop a higher mortality rate as it mutated. 

This led to the swine flu pandemic scare of 1976, which I've chronicled several times over the years (see Deja Flu, All Over Again)The feared swine flu pandemic never materialized, and for reasons we cannot explain, the virus simply disappeared.

But a year later, we did see an epidemic, at least among children, with the return of the H1N1 virus after a 20 year absence. Evidence suggests this may have come about due to a lab leak in Russia or China, which were suspected of conducting vaccine research for the 1976 `swine flu'

It isn't always a new virus, however.  Sometimes old flu viruses learn new tricks.

Two decades ago Amantadine was the preferred influenza antiviral. It was cheap, plentiful, and worked reasonably well as both a treatment, and a preventative. But its overuse - reportedly even in chicken feed in China- led to widespread resistance, and by 2006 the CDC no longer recommended its use.

Tamiflu (oseltamivir) - an NAI (neuraminidase inhibitor) - became the new treatment standard. While occasional instances of Oseltamivir resistance were recorded prior to 2007, in nearly every case, it developed after a person was placed on the drug (i.e. `spontaneous mutations’).


Studies suggested that these resistant strains were `less biologically fit’, and were therefore unlikely to spread from human-to-human.

That is, until `biologically fit' resistant H1N1 viruses emerged and began circulating in early 2008. By the end of the year - nearly all H1N1 viruses were resistant, forcing the CDC to issue major new guidance for the use of antivirals (see CIDRAP article With H1N1 resistance, CDC changes advice on flu drugs).

An antiviral crisis was averted when in 2009 a new swine-origin H1N1 virus -  one that happened retain its sensitivity to Tamiflu - swooped in as a pandemic strain, supplanting the older resistant H1N1 virus. 

While this 2009 H1N1 virus was considered relatively mild, in a small percentage (1%-2%) of patients a mutation (D225G) was known to produce more serious, deep-lung, infections. 

This mutation remains rare, but we've seen several clusters emerge (see here, here, and here) over the past dozen years, which keeps it on our watch list.

This famed unpredictability of influenza has provided a number of problematic flu seasons over the past decade, including: 

We tend to trivialize seasonal flu, forgetting that it is capable of reassorting with other (avian/swine) flu viruses to produce pandemics, that it can abruptly increase in virulence on its own, and it continually evolves to evade vaccines and/or antivirals.  

Our complacency has translated into a significant drop in seasonal flu vaccine uptake over the past 5 years, and far too many people go to work, or to school, while still contagious.   

While a novel flu virus would likely be worse, they generally emerge only a few times each century.  Seasonal flu comes around every year, and history has repeatedly shown that these viruses should not be underestimated.


DJ, and CoViD is far from over. How "flu" and "CoViD" could interact-create a worse kind of pandemic is worth a lot of study !

https://nltimes.nl/2025/01/02/hospitals-delaying-pediatric-surgeries-patients-rs-infections-fill-child-icus  or https://nltimes.nl/2025/01/02/hospitals-delaying-pediatric-surgeries-patients-rs-infections-fill-child-icus ; Hospitals in the Netherlands are being forced to delay scheduled surgeries and other planned care for children as the seven pediatric intensive care units have a shortage of available beds. There are about 90 pediatric ICU beds in the country, and about half of them are currently being used by children infected with the Respiratory Syncytial Virus who have developed serious respiratory problems, according to NOS and AD.

The current wave of RS infections has yet to hit a peak this winter, meaning the proportion of children with complications related to RS is expected to increase in the intensive care units in the coming days. This could force the cancellation of more planned care, like heart surgeries, as there will not be an available ICU location for recovery.

DJ, RS virus is a known risk-why numbers now is that high ?
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