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Greenland

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URL: http://www.mpoxforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=114
Printed Date: 11 Jan 2025 at 7:48am
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Topic: Greenland
Posted By: Dutch Josh 2
Subject: Greenland
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2025 at 2:47am
DJ, Again trump showed interest in Greenland. Not for climate reasons but for its resources, minerals, strategic route and Arctic position...

For the "trump-gang" Greenlanders may be only in the way for US (company) interests...
YES Greenland has a lot of minerals, economic potential...Also lots of (melting) ice, a small population and a major US military base...

Russia, China also "showed interest"-Denmark did allow Greenland the right to make a lot of its choices themselves-like many other western countries defense/foreign policy only decided by the "colonizer"....

Greenland may "go for independence" -however such status only can be archived if it can find a balance between all major players in a global/Arctic time of confrontation...



Replies:
Posted By: Dutch Josh 2
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2025 at 2:54am
A basic picture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland# - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland# or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland# ;

Greenland ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenlandic_language - Greenlandic : Kalaallit Nunaatpronounced  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Greenlandic - [kalaːɬːitGrønland, pronounced  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Danish - [ˈkʁɶnˌlænˀ] ) is an  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_administrative_division - autonomous territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-17 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-18 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-worldfactbook-19 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-worldfactbook-19 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-21 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-22 - Though a part of the continent of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America - North America , Greenland has been politically and culturally associated with  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe - Europe  (specifically  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway - Norway  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark - Denmark , the colonial powers) for more than a millennium, beginning in 986. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-Brown2000-23 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-natmus-24 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-25 - In 2021, Greenland had a population of 56,421. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-191 -  That year, 18,800 people resided in the capital city  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuuk - Nuuk . Nearly all Greenlanders live along the fjords in the south-west of the main island, which has a relatively mild climate, especially considering the high latitude upon which it lies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-192 -  Whereas the majority of the population lives north of 64°N in colder coastal climates, Greenland's warmest climates such as the vegetated area around  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narsarsuaq - Narsarsuaq  are sparsely populated.


DJ, Greenland-in a military sense-is undefendable...both for Greenland "defense" or Danish defense...Since the US is "in control" over NATO, NATO may be more a risk then a protector of Greenland.


Posted By: Dutch Josh 2
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2025 at 3:00am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#Treaty_of_Kiel_to_World_War_II_%281814%E2%80%931945%29 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#Treaty_of_Kiel_to_World_War_II_(1814%E2%80%931945) or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#Treaty_of_Kiel_to_World_War_II_(1814%E2%80%931945) 

Greenland's connection to Denmark was severed on 9 April 1940, early in  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland_during_World_War_II - World War II , after Denmark was occupied by  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany - Nazi Germany . On 8 April 1941, the United States occupied Greenland to defend it against a possible invasion by Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-66 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluie - Bluie  as a code name for Greenland, where they kept several bases named "Bluie (East or West) (sequential numeral)". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-sem-67 - During this war, the system of government changed:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_governors_of_Greenland - Governor   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eske_Brun - Eske Brun  ruled the island under a law of 1925 that allowed governors to take control under extreme circumstances; Governor Aksel Svane was transferred to the United States to lead the commission to supply Greenland. The Danish  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sl%C3%A6depatruljen_Sirius - Sirius Patrol  guarded the northeastern shores of Greenland in 1942 using dog sleds. They detected several German  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_station - weather stations  and alerted American troops, who destroyed the facilities. After the collapse of the Third Reich,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Speer - Albert Speer  briefly considered escaping in a small aeroplane to hide out in Greenland, but changed his mind and decided to surrender to the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces - United States Armed Forces . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-68 - In 1867,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States - United States   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State - Secretary of State   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Seward - William H. Seward  worked with former senator  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_J._Walker - Robert J. Walker  to explore the possibility of buying Greenland and, perhaps,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland - Iceland . Opposition in Congress ended this project. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-69 -  Following World War II, the United States developed a  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geopolitics - geopolitical  interest in Greenland and in 1946 offered to  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_United_States_purchase_of_Greenland - buy the island from Denmark  for $100,000,000; the Danish rejected the offer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-70 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-71 - In 1951 Denmark and the United States signed the Greenland Defense Agreement, which allowed the United States to keep its military bases in Greenland, and to establish new bases or "defense areas" if deemed necessary by  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO - NATO . The U.S. military could freely use and move between these defense areas, but was not to infringe upon Danish sovereignty in Greenland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-72 -  The United States greatly expanded  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Air_Base - Thule Air Base  between 1951 and 1953 as part of a unified NATO defence strategy. The local population of three nearby villages was moved more than 100 km (62 miles) away in the winter. The United States tried to construct a subterranean network of secret  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_launch_facility - nuclear missile launch sites  in the Greenlandic ice cap, named  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Iceworm - Project Iceworm . According to documents declassified in 1996, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-73 -  this project was managed from  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Century - Camp Century  from 1960 to 1966 before abandonment as unworkable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-74 -  The missiles were never fielded, and necessary consent from the Danish Government to do so was never sought. The Danish government did not become aware of the programme's mission until 1997, when they discovered it while looking, in the declassified documents, for records related to the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Thule_Air_Base_B-52_crash - crash of a nuclear-equipped B-52 bomber  near the Thule air base in 1968. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#cite_note-h-bomb-75 -



Posted By: Dutch Josh 2
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2025 at 3:12am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland;
Since the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19th_century - 19th century , the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States - United States  has considered, and made, several attempts to purchase the island of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland - Greenland  from  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Realm - Denmark , as it did with the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_West_Indies - Danish West Indies  in 1917. Internal discussions within the United States government about acquiring Greenland notably occurred in 1867, 1910, 1946, and 2019, and acquisition has been advocated by former American secretaries of state  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Seward - William H. Seward  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_F._Byrnes - James F. Byrnes , privately by former vice president  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Rockefeller - Nelson Rockefeller , and publicly by President  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump - Donald Trump , among others. After World War II, the United States secretly offered to buy Greenland; public discussion of buying the island occurred after Trump's 2024 reelection.

While Greenland is an  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_administrative_division - autonomous territory  within the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Realm - Kingdom of Denmark , Greenlandic and Danish authorities have publicly asserted Greenland's right to  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination - self-determination  and stated that Greenland is "not for sale". Many Greenlanders support  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenlandic_independence - independence , and many Danes see the historical ties with Greenland as an integral part of Danish national identity.

The United States has long viewed Greenland as vital to national security. In the early 20th century, it included Greenland among several European possessions in the Western Hemisphere to preemptively seize and fortify in the event of a threatened attack on the US. During World War II, the US invoked its  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine - Monroe Doctrine  and  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_in_World_War_II - occupied Greenland  to prevent use by Germany following the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_invasion_of_Denmark_%281940%29 - German occupation of Denmark . The US military remained in Greenland after the war and, by 1948, Denmark abandoned attempts to persuade the U.S. to remove them. The following year, both countries became members of the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO - NATO  military alliance. A 1951 treaty gave the US a significant role in Greenland's defense. Today it has one military base there:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituffik_Space_Base - Pituffik Space Base .

DJ, Buying and stealing in geo-politics may be the same thing...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland#Defense_of_the_mainland_United_States - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland#Defense_of_the_mainland_United_States or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland#Defense_of_the_mainland_United_States 
An acquisition of Greenland would give the United States control of an island that it sees as crucial to its defense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland#cite_note-jones2016-28 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland#cite_note-lippman20190824-20 -   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuters - Reuters  described Greenland in October 2020 as "a security black hole" for the United States and allies, and said its 27,000 miles (44,000 km) of coastline was difficult to monitor. "On several occasions since 2006, foreign vessels have turned up unexpectedly or without the necessary protocols, in waters that NATO-member Denmark aims to defend", the news agency reported. Detection of foreign vessels, including a Russian submarine, has often been by chance. A potential security threat are Russian ships believed to have the ability to tap undersea cables or sever them during a conflict. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_the_United_States_to_purchase_Greenland#cite_note-jgp20201019-10 -  A 2021 study by the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAND_Corporation - RAND Corporation  expressed concern that Greenland "could be seduced into Russia's or China's orbit" were it to attain independence from Denmark

DJ, Under NATO, Danish-US agreements-or ignoring any rules-the US can expand its presence in Greenland. Again-one of the weak spots for Greenland is its very small (<60,000) population on a very large landmass...

The US could create several bases on Greenland-without informing Denmark-call it "a drill"...A US carrier group for the coast of Nuuk, US navy at several coastal areas, US air force taking over the sky..."Unfriendly" Denmark will protest...but is unable to fight it...May even have to defend it if Russia would react...

If the US would send in tens-of-thousends US military, miners, citizens-using US$, start building real estate by US companies for a US (oriented) population influx...it would be an "unfriendly takeover" like some companies are taken over in an unfriendly way...but may be unable to stop it...


Posted By: Dutch Josh 2
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2025 at 3:39am
DJ, How can Greenland protect itself against an "unfriendly US take over" ? 

My view; Work with Denmark, Iceland, Canada, Norway, Sweden..

One of the goals has to be diversification of the Greenland economy. Part of that has to be food production. Climate collapse allows "a bit more" production...so less food has to be imported. 

Growing agri-culture-partly in glass houses-may also allow the Greenland population to grow...

On the longer term maybe up to 500,000-1 million people may be "Greenlanders"? However Inuit-"first nation" cultures have to be protected...It should not become a "cold-Australia" with Inuit (Eskimos) as a second class population...

Part of the population may come from Siberia...part of temporary population may be miners working for multi-national companies that identify as "multi national" more then US, Canada, China, Russia or India based companies...

The areas where people can live is limited...coastal...and living in Greenland will remain "hard". 

DJ-I did read stories of Arab countries buying-transporting ice-bergs for their watersupply...(however transporting an iceberg to the Arab world-accepting only 10% of the ice-berg will reach its destination-in my eyes us not that realistic...). 

Tourism may grow...part of it on cruiseships-since the road system over longer distances (for now)  is impossible on Greenland. (And one may not welcome lots of air traffic...). 



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