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Post Reply - Concentrationcamps are back !


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Topic - Concentrationcamps are back !
Posted: 12 Aug 2024 at 1:45am By Dutch Josh
DJ-The level of crime in concentration(like)camps was very different. Even under nazi-terror some camps did see laborers as "of use" -at least for some time....

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-united-states-and-the-holocaust-why-auschwitz-was-not-bombed or https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-united-states-and-the-holocaust-why-auschwitz-was-not-bombed (DJ-To put it wider-why mass murder can go on-with lots of people knowing it...). 

During the spring of 1944, the Allies received more explicit information about the process of mass murder by gassing carried out at Auschwitz-Birkenau. On some days as many as 10,000 people were murdered in its gas chambers. In desperation, Jewish organizations made various proposals to halt the extermination process and rescue Europe's remaining Jews. A few Jewish leaders called for the bombing of the Auschwitz gas chambers; others opposed it. Like some Allied officials, both sides feared the death toll or the German propaganda that might exploit any bombing of the camp's prisoners. No one was certain of the results.

Even after Anglo-American air forces developed the capacity to hit targets in Silesia (where the Auschwitz complex was located) in July 1944, US authorities decided not to bomb Auschwitz. American officials explained this decision in part with a technical argument that their aircraft did not have the capacity to conduct air raids on such targets with sufficient accuracy, and in part with a strategic argument that the Allies were committed to bombing exclusively military targets in order to win the war as quickly as possible.

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In subsequent decades, the Allied decision not to bomb the gas chambers in or the rail lines leading to Auschwitz-Birkenau has been a source of sometimes bitter debate. Proponents of bombing continue to argue that such an action, while it might have killed some prisoners, could have slowed the killing operations and perhaps ultimately saved lives.

DJ...Is there an obligation to intervene when a country is doing a very major crime ? 

In the past a "R2P" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect ;

The responsibility to protect (R2P or RtoP) is a global political commitment which was endorsed by the United Nations General Assembly at the 2005 World Summit in order to address its four key concerns to prevent genocidewar crimesethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity.[1][2] The doctrine is regarded as a unanimous and well-established international norm over the past two decades.[3]

The principle of the responsibility to protect is based upon the underlying premise that sovereignty entails a responsibility to protect all populations from mass atrocity crimes and human rights violations.[4][5][6] The principle is based on a respect for the norms and principles of international law, especially the underlying principles of law relating to sovereignty, peace and security, human rights, and armed conflict.[7][8] The R2P has three pillars:

  1. Pillar I: The protection responsibilities of the state – "Each individual state has the responsibility to protect its population from genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and crimes against humanity"
  2. Pillar II: International assistance and capacity-building – States pledge to assist each other in their protection responsibilities
  3. Pillar III: Timely and decisive collective response – If any state is "manifestly failing" in its protection responsibilities, then states should take collective action to protect the population.[9][10]

While there is agreement among states about the responsibility to protect, there is persistent contestation about the applicability of the third pillar in practice.[9] The responsibility to protect provides a framework for employing measures that already exist (i.e., mediation, early warning mechanisms, economic sanctions, and chapter VII powers) to prevent atrocity crimes and to protect civilians from their occurrence. The authority to employ the use of force under the framework of the responsibility to protect rests solely with United Nations Security Council and is considered a measure of last resort.[11]


DJ, So there has to be a sort of UN acceptance for intervention...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect#Libya,_2011 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_to_protect#Libya,_2011 ;

A few days later, acting on the resolution, NATO planes started striking at Gaddafi's forces.[61] NATO subsequently came under scrutiny for its behavior during the air strikes; concerns included the fact that the intervention quickly moved to regime-change and that there were allegations regarding aerial bombardments that may have caused civilian casualties.[62]

"it has become a political game"; R2P used by NATO for regime change operations...

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