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Topic - A new pandemic
Posted: 29 Mar 2025 at 11:38pm By Dutch Josh 2
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BREAKING: Bird Flu Reinfections Surge at US Poultry Farms, Experts Urge Vaccines and Stricter Measures.

DJ, the idea flu=immunity seems to be "over optimistic" (also cattle in US did see reinfection). 

https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/03/npj-vaccines-modeling-impact-of-early.html or https://afludiary.blogspot.com/2025/03/npj-vaccines-modeling-impact-of-early.html ;

NPJ Vaccines: Modeling the Impact of Early Vaccination in an Influenza Pandemic in the United States


Although there are no guarantees that avian H5N1 will spark the next pandemic, it is a pretty good bet that the next pandemic will be caused by a novel `flu-like' virus (with influenza and coronaviruses being at the top of that list).  

While once thought of as a `once-in-a-generation' event, in my lifetime I've already experienced 4 legitimate pandemics (1957, 1968, 2009, 2020), 2 pseudo-pandemics (19772003), and one `near-miss ' (1976).

Given recent trends (see PNAS Research: Intensity and Frequency of Extreme Novel Epidemics) - even at my age - it is entirely possible I'll see another.  While it is unknown what the next pandemic will look like, it is likely we'll go into it without a vaccine and with relatively few therapeutic options. 
Recent studies looking at avian H5 have raised concerns over the effectiveness of current antivirals, and there are a great many barriers to rapidly producing, and distributing, a novel flu vaccine
As Maggie Fox explained last year in SCI AM - A Bird Flu Vaccine Might Come Too Late to Save Us from H5N1, our options during the opening months of any pandemic will be limited. Unpopular as they might be, NPIs (non-pharmaceutical interventions like masks, social distancing, etc.) will once again become our first line of defense. 

DJ, Flu Vaccines give (limited=60% ? protection against severe flu-symptoms-includes against H1N1...may offer -limited- protection against H5N1...Also earlier flu infection could still result in some immunity-even against "bird flu". A risk may be catching a "bird flu H5/H7/H9 virus" without major symptoms but spreading it to others with less defenses). 

Vaccines can limit pandemics !!! CoViD, measles, flu all see vaccines as a defense ! And both measles and flu have vaccination programs going back decades !

Which brings us the question: is it better to have a less-well-matched vaccine earlier (at 3 months), or wait (6 months or more) for a well-matched vaccine?

It is not an easy question to answer, because there are so many unknown variables.  As the old saying goes, `If you've seen one pandemic . . . . you've seen one pandemic'.  The speed of transmission (R0), its place of origin, its virulence (CFR and Attack Rate), and even its impact on different age groups, all change the outcome. 

We've a study today that attempts to model the impact of early vs. late vaccination in a variety of pandemic scenarios, juggling virulence (moderate or severe), and vaccine effectiveness (high, moderate, or  low), in order to try to quantify the probable benefits. 

In order to keep all of this manageable the authors had to make a number of assumptions that may, or may not, hold true in the next pandemic; an origin in the Southern Hemisphere, a greater impact on older patients, and a single wave, etc.   

-
Vaccination from 3 months with a high, moderate, or low effectiveness vaccine would prevent ~95%, 84%, or 38% deaths post-vaccination, respectively, compared with 21%, 18%, and 8%, respectively following vaccination at 6 months, irrespective of pandemic severity.
While the pandemic curve would not be flattened from vaccination from 6 months, a moderate/high effectiveness vaccine could flatten the curve if administered from 3 months.
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This study uses a lot of epidemiological assumptions, which may (or may not) be a good fit for the next pandemic.  Much will also depend upon how society reacts to the next pandemic.  
  • Will lockdowns be tolerated, or will people refuse masks and social distancing?   
  • Assuming a vaccine could be produced in quantity in 3 months, would large segments of the public actually embrace it?  How much extra resistance against an mRNA vaccine? 
  • How much tolerance would the public have for (real or imagined) vaccine side effects, particularly in a low VE jab?  
While I'm not particularly hopeful that an emergency vaccine of any VE can be produced and deployed within the first 3 months of a novel pandemic - in the event of a severe disease - this study strongly suggests that the earlier that can happen, the better. 

DJ, In my view we are allready in a multi-disease pandemic. CoViD, measles, flu...Mpox a growing risk...TB..

So ...the first tool is information and communication !!! Restore trust by keeping healthcare away from "politics/profits"...Maybe even "Big Pharma" is beginning to realize TRUST is the major ingredient of doing bussinesses...

In my view "reasonable profits" may need to be accepted when dealing with privately owned "big pharma"...Lots of countries put "big pharma" under government restrictions (a.o. by buying their products at a price the government is willing to pay...) 

Other countries see "healthcare & pharma" in government hands..."strategic defense"...
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DJ-We may be moving towards a far worse "disease X" with a high CFR and NO (human) immunity...The more time we can buy by limiting other pandemics the more time we have to avoid/prepare for a "new disease X"...

Like with climate collapse-the only option available may be "damage control"!!!

The more people "limit exposure", go for vaccines, masks, eye protection etc. the better !

DJ-A person decides over his/her own body...so "mandatory vaccinations" may only be acceptable for limited -job related- groups...Just like a woman -only herself- can decide over abortion/births...People have a basic right to decide their life is "over" or who you want to share your life with...

Governments have to know their limits...Some US states anti abortion laws are criminal...Same-sex relations are NOT government bussinesses !!! And YES-some people feel to "live in a wrong body" and deserve GOOD help !

In many countries criminal "politicians" fail to respect basic human rights...Good PUBLIC healthcare also is a BASIC !!!! human right ! (and not a privilage for a rich criminal...)

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