MH17-10 years ago

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   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 ;
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) was a scheduled passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that was shot down by Russian-controlled forces^[4]^[5]^[6]^[7] on 17 July 2014, while flying over eastern Ukraine. All 283 passengers and 15 crew were killed.^[8]

DJ, the claim "Russia did it" was based on UKraine secret service info...Russia-even Malaysia !!!- were kept out of the investigations...Of course UKraine played a major role in those "investigations".....

Lots of sources claimed an old Soviet era BUK-missile was used. Not in use by Russia-still-in 2014-in use by UKraine...

DJ-"Pro-Russian seperatists" could have gotten an UKraine old BUK ...Only why would they shoot at a plane flying close to 10 kilometers over UKraine ?  For the "rebel forces" LOW !!!! flying UKraine (and Georgian) planes were the major problem...

DJ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire#Political_consequences or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire#Political_consequences ;
The Reichstag fire (German: Reichstagsbrand, listen^ⓘ) was an arson attack on the Reichstag building, home of the German parliament in Berlin, on Monday, 27 February 1933, precisely four weeks after Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor of Germany. Marinus van der Lubbe, a Dutch council communist, was the alleged culprit; however, Hitler attributed the fire to Communist agitators.
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In The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer wrote that at the Nuremberg Trials, General Franz Halder stated in an affidavit that Hermann Göring had boasted about setting the fire: "On the occasion of a lunch on the Führer's birthday in 1943, the people around the Führer turned the conversation to the Reichstag building and its artistic value. I heard with my own ears how Göring broke into the conversation and shouted: 'The only one who really knows about the Reichstag building is I, for I set fire to it.' And saying this he slapped his thigh".^[58]
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A possible scenario may be UKraine did shoot down the MH17 flight...but it did not fit in the NATO story...

198 Dutch people died in the MH17 shoot down. In Dutch media referred to as "disaster" NOT as a war crime...

If western claims-some of it going as far as "Putin ordered it" -were believed to be real it would have been a reason for much harder actions against Russia...

However NL did NOT break relations with Russia at the time...some trade continued...Nord Stream was build...
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Could Russia by accident or on purpose should down a passenger plane over UKraine in 2014 ? DJ-YES ! They are no saints...

However UKraine doing so and blaming Russia for it may make more sense (at least to me). 
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Family members have a right to know the truth. They may be denied to know what realy happened for "political reasons"....

There may be a lot of evidence (US radar images, a flight controller from Kiev "missing" since that day) still hidden...unwelcome for NATO war goals...
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Governments/politicians should try to limit their lies...In wars, pandemics, climate collapse we now end up with almost "lies only"....Maybe it was a reality for centuries...we simply could not know...Internet changed the picture...

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Dutch Josh Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 23 Jun 2024 Status: Offline Points: 554	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dutch Josh Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: MH17-10 years ago Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 12:11am
	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 ; Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) was a scheduled passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that was shot down by Russian-controlled forces^[4]^[5]^[6]^[7] on 17 July 2014, while flying over eastern Ukraine. All 283 passengers and 15 crew were killed.^[8] DJ, the claim "Russia did it" was based on UKraine secret service info...Russia-even Malaysia !!!- were kept out of the investigations...Of course UKraine played a major role in those "investigations"..... Lots of sources claimed an old Soviet era BUK-missile was used. Not in use by Russia-still-in 2014-in use by UKraine... DJ-"Pro-Russian seperatists" could have gotten an UKraine old BUK ...Only why would they shoot at a plane flying close to 10 kilometers over UKraine ? For the "rebel forces" LOW !!!! flying UKraine (and Georgian) planes were the major problem... DJ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire#Political_consequences or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire#Political_consequences ; The Reichstag fire (German: Reichstagsbrand, listen^ⓘ) was an arson attack on the Reichstag building, home of the German parliament in Berlin, on Monday, 27 February 1933, precisely four weeks after Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor of Germany. Marinus van der Lubbe, a Dutch council communist, was the alleged culprit; however, Hitler attributed the fire to Communist agitators. - In The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer wrote that at the Nuremberg Trials, General Franz Halder stated in an affidavit that Hermann Göring had boasted about setting the fire: "On the occasion of a lunch on the Führer's birthday in 1943, the people around the Führer turned the conversation to the Reichstag building and its artistic value. I heard with my own ears how Göring broke into the conversation and shouted: 'The only one who really knows about the Reichstag building is I, for I set fire to it.' And saying this he slapped his thigh".^[58] - A possible scenario may be UKraine did shoot down the MH17 flight...but it did not fit in the NATO story... 198 Dutch people died in the MH17 shoot down. In Dutch media referred to as "disaster" NOT as a war crime... If western claims-some of it going as far as "Putin ordered it" -were believed to be real it would have been a reason for much harder actions against Russia... However NL did NOT break relations with Russia at the time...some trade continued...Nord Stream was build... - Could Russia by accident or on purpose should down a passenger plane over UKraine in 2014 ? DJ-YES ! They are no saints... However UKraine doing so and blaming Russia for it may make more sense (at least to me). - Family members have a right to know the truth. They may be denied to know what realy happened for "political reasons".... There may be a lot of evidence (US radar images, a flight controller from Kiev "missing" since that day) still hidden...unwelcome for NATO war goals... - Governments/politicians should try to limit their lies...In wars, pandemics, climate collapse we now end up with almost "lies only"....Maybe it was a reality for centuries...we simply could not know...Internet changed the picture...

Dutch Josh Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 23 Jun 2024 Status: Offline Points: 554	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dutch Josh Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 1:42am
	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_International_Airlines_Flight_752 ; Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 (PS752/AUI752) was a scheduled international civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Kyiv, operated by Ukraine International Airlines. On 8 January 2020, the Boeing 737-800 flying the route was shot down by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) shortly after takeoff,^[4]^[5]^[6] killing all 176 occupants on board. Missiles were fired at the aircraft by the IRGC amidst heightened tensions between Iran and the United States. The incident occurred five days after the United States carried out the assassination of Qasem Soleimani and some hours after Iran retaliated with Operation Martyr Soleimani, in which the IRGC fired dozens of ballistic missiles on American-led coalition forces; both the assassination and the missile strikes took place in Iraq.^[7] DJ, The shoot down of the MH17 flight was-sadly-NOT an incident...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 ; The reason for the downing has been disputed between the governments of the two countries. According to the United States, the Vincennes crew had incorrectly identified the Airbus as an attacking F-14 Tomcat, a U.S.-made jet fighter that had been part of the Iranian Air Force inventory since the 1970s. DJ, Maybe UKraine did mistake the MH17 flight for a higher altitude Russia recognize aircraft? (Which could be a "legitimate target" in the conflict). In general countries admit mistakes and offer payments/apologies... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103 or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103 ; Pan Am Flight 103 (PA103/PAA103) was a regularly scheduled Pan Am transatlantic flight from Frankfurt to Detroit via a stopover in London and another in New York City. The transatlantic leg of the route was operated by Clipper Maid of the Seas, a Boeing 747 registered N739PA. Shortly after 19:00 on 21 December 1988, while the aircraft was in flight over the Scottish town of Lockerbie, it was destroyed by a bomb, killing all 243 passengers and 16 crew in what became known as the Lockerbie bombing.^[1] Large sections of the aircraft crashed in a residential street in Lockerbie, killing 11 residents. With a total of 270 fatalities, it is the deadliest terrorist attack in the history of the United Kingdom. DJ, allthough Libyan men stood trial very likely Iran may have been behind/involved in this attack in reaction to the US shooting down an Iran airbus july 1988 (IranAir flight 655). Russia still denies it did shoot down the MH17 flight. For me it is also very unclear WHY Russia would shoot down such high altitude plane...(motive)... So https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory in the "west" people still asking questions, having doubts, "fall for Russian propaganda".... (Assad winning the NATO caused "civil" war going for chemical weapons-a NATO excuse for cruise missiles on Syria-is another non-sense western lie...By now lots of evidence link the US (h.clinton) with sending Libyan weapons to Syrian "moderate terrorists"... IS never attacking USrael....airlifted by the US/CIA to oil rich regions...of course "NATO would never do such a thing"...) NATO makes genocide in Gaza possible...Not only sending weapons and intel...US Delta force -via the US costly pier- may have been involved in an attack...NATO is financing a bankrupt USrael... UKraine has lost by now over 600,000 "fighters" in a NATO provoked war that could have been both avoided and ended in a Türkiye brokered peace deal...BoJo -then UK-PM- avoided peace... So...sorry...but is NATO able to hide the facts ? YES...I have not any doubt about that !

Dutch Josh Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 23 Jun 2024 Status: Offline Points: 554	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dutch Josh Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2024 at 8:34am
	The NATO/west story https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/07/from-shooting-down-to-trial-a-timeline-of-the-mh17-disaster/ or https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/07/from-shooting-down-to-trial-a-timeline-of-the-mh17-disaster/ The Russian side; https://tass.com/politics/1817851 or https://tass.com/politics/1817851 DJ-My view; IF NL -my country- is that certain "Russia did-on purpose-shoot down a passenger plane-killing almost 300 civilians-almost 200 of them Dutch than NL should break all relations with Russia and demand apologies and extradition of those behind the mass murder... NL did NOT do so...